Text Size

2nd Ammendment Issues

"To Keep and Bear..."

The first step in retaining your rights is understanding them.

"To Keep and Bear..."

Postby DeadEnd80 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:02 am

I know that the most controversial part of the 2nd amendment is the very definition of "To keep and bear arms". So, as always I look for opinions from fellow gun owners as to how they see the phrase.
I volunteer a good bit of my free time to grassroots movements and groups trying to ensure that our rights are represented and that the general public gets a little education on firearms, so I might end up using some of these quotes when I get my meeting with my representative.
User avatar
DeadEnd80
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: "To Keep and Bear..."

Postby DangerousFat » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:51 am

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Keep in mind, I love my guns, but as I read this, it seems to me that it is referring to the right for members of the civilian militia to keep and bear arms, not all citizens. As I see it now, we have the most powerful military on the face of the planet and they don't want nor need me as a militiaman, so the Second Amendment doesn't apply to me, or you.

That being said, I suppose it could also be read as insinuating that we should all be armed because we are the militia and are required to protect the security of a free State.

This is, once again, the problem with a lot of things, but specifically this amendment, it is poorly written and far too open for interpretation. Maybe 200 years ago it was clearer verb-age, but not now.

If it were me writing it, I would have said this: "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state. The People of these United States shall be her militia and their right to keep and bear arms shall never be infringed."

- DF

***EDIT:

On the other hand... I just found a whole SLEW of quotes form our founding fathers about the people being armed... here's the link http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quot ... ng-fathers

Here are some choice tidbits:

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison
User avatar
DangerousFat
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:09 am
Location: Coral Springs, FL

Re: "To Keep and Bear..."

Postby DangerousFat » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:07 pm

... and because that post was getting long, here's my new favorite:

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samual Adams

I THINK he might have had something to do with that whole... Constitution thing, perhaps he knows what he's talking about.

- DF
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison
User avatar
DangerousFat
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:09 am
Location: Coral Springs, FL

Re: "To Keep and Bear..."

Postby DeadEnd80 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:36 pm

Hey Dangerous, thanks for the reply. That's a great link, and is a serious wealth of info I'll probably end up using later. And I'm glad it's from a fellow Floridian too! It sure seems the founding fathers were all about their guns, and I'm personally glad the recent government starting seeing that too, if only recently. I think it was the District of Columbia v. Heller 554 US. ___ of 2008 that the Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of the Constitution applying to individual rights, "...in much the same way as the First Amendment protects and individuals free speech"

This is gold, and will certainly help me substantially. Keep 'em coming!
User avatar
DeadEnd80
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: "To Keep and Bear..."

Postby DangerousFat » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:00 pm

‘‘The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.’’
— James Earl Jones, Actor

‘‘The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.’’
— St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803

‘‘Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.’’
— Mahatma Ghandi, "Gandhi, An Autobiography", page 446

‘‘The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police.’’
— Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938

‘‘It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.’’
— Justice Robert H. Jackson

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." ("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)
— Sigmund Freud

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
— John F. Kennedy

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
— George Orwell

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)
— The Dalai Lama

And one more for now about the importance of the Constitution, from someone who definitely believed it was more than a piece of paper:

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority...the Constitution was made to guard against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Noah Webster

So let's see, that's blacks, whites, psychologists, judges, pacifists, founding fathers, and religious icons that all believe we should be allowed to responsibly keep and bear arms to protect ourselves and our country. Seems everyone is in agreement, well, except for Hitler... interesting.
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison
User avatar
DangerousFat
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:09 am
Location: Coral Springs, FL


Return to 2nd Ammendment Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 270 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:05 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest